True Crime With A Warning Label

A mother of three faces first degree murder charges, and the courtroom battle is about something far bigger than headlines: postpartum mental health, criminal responsibility, and what we do when a parent says they are not okay and nobody catches it in time. We walk through the Lindsay Clancy case as it’s been publicly reported, including her background, the timeline leading up to January 2023, and the legal fight over an insanity defense tied to postpartum psychosis. 

We also dig into what makes this case so polarizing: the gap between appearing “coherent” and being in psychiatric crisis, the role of medications and diagnosis, and how juries are asked to weigh expert testimony against brutal outcomes. Along the way, we talk about why malingering of psychosis even enters the conversation, what some clinical literature claims about detecting faked symptoms, and why none of this is simple when the stakes are life sentences and lifelong grief. Keywords that matter here are postpartum psychosis, postpartum anxiety, true crime analysis, insanity defense, and mental health stigma. 

Then we widen the lens to two more recent tragedies: Sarah Duffy’s killing by her soon to be ex husband after an online post, and a Grand Haven, Michigan familicide tied to an intentionally set house fire. We reflect on domestic violence, online image versus private reality, religion and control, and the uncomfortable pressure that can build inside families while the outside world sees smiles and curated clips. 

If you listen to true crime podcasts to understand patterns, warning signs, and the hard questions behind “how could this happen,” this conversation will stay with you. Subscribe, share this episode with someone who cares about mental health and safety, and leave a review with your take: where do you think prevention realistically starts?

Transcript

Content Warning And Welcome

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Good evening everyone. This is your host, Melissa. It's Strange Strange Band Insane. Welcome back to all my spookies, and for this episode, I will say my crime junkies. Now, before I start, I do want to say that there is viewer discretion advice. Um, this content contains material that may be disturbing, offensive, or unsuitable for certain audiences. Okay, so I do want to just start off that way because this is speaking of children. Um there's a couple of them that I want to talk about, a couple cases. Uh one is very recent, and well, two of them are recent, and one of them happened about three years ago.

The Lindsay Clancy Case Overview

SPEAKER_00 0:41

Alright, so the first case I want to start is the um Lindsay Clancy. Lindsay Clancy built a seemingly idyllic life with her husband and three young children, all under the age of six, in Ducksbury, Massachusetts. However, prosecutors allege that image was shattered in January of 2023 when Clancy brutally strangled her kids to death. Okay, so Clancy faces a mandatory life sentence sentence if convicted of the murder charges. While prosecutors claim her actions were deliberate, Clancy has pleaded to not be guilty to all charges, and her defense team contends she suffered from undiagnosed postpartum psychosis at the time of the killings. Now a jury will ultimately decide the mother's fate. So here's everything that we all know about Clancy's background the alleged murders and what to expect during the trial. Lindsay Marie Musgrove was born on August 11th, 1990, according to court documents obtained by WPRI.com. She was raised in Wallingford, Connecticut. She attended a rigorous, accelerated nursing program at Massachusetts General Hospital, then worked as a labor and delivery nurse at the faculty for nine years. In December of 2016, Lindsay married Patrick Clancy. The couple had three children: Cora, born in December 2017, Dawson of September 2019, and Callan, May of 2022. The family lived in Duxbury, Massachusetts. She was a fun, loving, doting wife and mother. Susan Clancy, Patrick's mother, told a grand jury of Lindsay. She loved her kids and she was a nurturing mother who smiled all the time. Lindsay began experiencing postpartum anxiety following the birth of Cora Ann Dawson, according to The New Yorker. After Dawson's birth, she managed her symptoms with exercise, meditation, and therapy. After Callan's birth, however, the symptoms

Mental Health History And Treatment Gaps

SPEAKER_00 3:05

grew in severity. After a period of hip hip, I think hippomanic behavior, meaning heightened energy and mood, Lindsay experienced debilitating anxiety insomnia, sleeping only approximately three hours per night, and exhaustion during the day. She also heard voices and experienced suicidal ideolation. Lindsay sought help from postpartum mental health specialists, although she was only diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder. She even insisted she needed to be hospitalized for mental health concerns in December of 2022. Patrick told the New Yorker, but she never received a more severe diagnosis. On January 1st, 2023, she was admitted to an inpatient program at a top psychiatric institution, McLean Hospital, but was discharged after just five days. Patrick later confirmed Lindsay had been prescribed and tried more than a dozen medications in an attempt to manage her apparent depression. Tragically, the saga turned into a violent incident that left their three children dead. Wow, how sad. And of course, you know, it gets more sad as we keep going. According to the prosecutors, Lindsay took her daughter to the PDF pediatrician, I'm sorry, and played in the snow with her children on January 24th, 2023, before asking Patrick to pick up takeout for dinner and medication at a nearby pharmacy. She was allegedly fully coherent, according to the witnesses. When he returned home, Patrick discovered Lindsay semiconscious and bleeding outside. She claimed she had tried to jump out of a window in a suicide attempt. Inside, Patrick found all three of their children in the home's basement. They allegedly had exercise bands wrapped around their necks. Cora and Dawson were pronounced dead at the hospital the same day, while Callan was placed on life support but died on January 27th. All three died of strangulation. She pleaded not guilty to the charges. Judge John Canavan also ordered Lindsay to be held at a medical facility until her treatment following the incident was complete. Months later, in October 2023, NBC 10 reported that Clancy was ordered to be held without bail and to remain in the uh Tuxbury Hospital. She is still at the faculty as

What Prosecutors Say Happened

SPEAKER_00 6:12

she awaits trial and is now paraplegic and confined to a wheelchair following her suicide attempt. Just days before the scheduled start of the trial on July 10th, 2026, prosecutors dropped the three strangulation charges against Clancy, citing their redundant redundancy when coupled with the first degree murder charges. Okay, Clancy does not deny killing her three children, but has argued in motions that she was suffering from from postpartum psychosis at the time of their death and is not guilty by insanity defense, according to Court TV. The defense team previously petitioned for a by bifur I'm sorry, by bifurcated trial, I think, with one face to determine guilt and another for criminal responsibility. And Clancy was reportedly willing to admit to her role in her children's deaths in writing, so only the second part would be considered. If she is found mentally incompetent at the time of the killings, she wouldn't go to prison but could be committed to a mental health facility. However, so far this request has been denied and will be a standard trial. Just weeks after Lindsay's arraignment, Patrick issued a statement saying he had forgiven her and that her passion taught me how to be a better father. She's recently been portrayed larger I'm sorry, largely by people who have never met her and never knew who the real Lindsay was. Patrick added. Prosecutors presented the judge with a list of 168 potential witnesses who may be called to testify, though the number is likely to be condensed in Boston. The defense said it has about 50, mostly character witnesses. Prosecutors requested the jury and the trial be allowed to visit the home where the killings took place, and the new homeowner, Patrick Clancy, sold the residences residence at 47 Summer Street in Duxbury in 2024. Reportedly, objects to the motion. However, at a pretrial hearing on June 18th, Judge William Sul Sullivan granted attorneys the ability to take jurors to the site to view the house in Boston. Hmm, interesting. Additionally, Sullivan granted the prosecution permission to present several key pieces of evidence, including photographs of the children. Oh God. I couldn't sit through that trial. Um, from when they were alive and autopsy photos following their deaths. Only medical experts will be allowed to discuss Clancy's mental health diagnosis, and witness other than Clancy's family members will be requested. On June 29th, jurors will be allowed to hear Patrick Clancy's 911 call made after discovering Lindsay outside their home the day of the alleged alleged strangulations. The cries for help and the statements of Mr. Clancy also have significant um evidence and value in terms of proving deliberate premeditation, extreme or cruelty, and the state of mind of the defendant. Prosecutors claim according to court records, however, the jury will receive a limiting instruction on how to legally consider the recording during the trial. Also, according to ABC 5, prosecutors withdrew a motion requesting to use

Trial Decisions And Evidence Battles

SPEAKER_00 10:12

a physical blood spatter demonstration. Oh Jesus. Okay, so Clancy's officially her trial began on Monday, July 20th at Plymouth County Superior Court in Plymouth, Massachusetts. A final pretrial hearing was held one week prior on July 13th. The trial is expected to last six to eight weeks total. The trial has already experienced three significant delays. It was supposed to begin in February of 2026, but both Clancy's defense attorney and prosecutors requested more time to prepare for the discovery intensive case. Judge William Sullivan previously said he expected to seek 18 jurors for the case. After four days of selection, the jur the jury, consisting of 12 women and six men, was seated. Alright, so on the first day of the testimony, uh, Patrick Clancy to be the first witness, he spoke about Lindsay's medical history, medications, and demeanor in the days leading up to their children's deaths. Sharing he took daughter Cora skiing on January 16th and shared pictures with Lindsay. She seemed to have been doing a lot better, Patrick said, adding that her mood seemed better and she was more active and was able to partake in more things. He also described January 24th, the day of the killings, as one of her best days with Lindsay, showing no signs of suicidal thoughts. Wow. So, um, I obviously this is all over the internet. Um, we've been seeing this, we've been waiting for this trial, and you can tell I don't like reading from a screen, but I had to kind of like shoot some facts. I know there's a lot of different things being said and being showcased, um, you know, through snippets on social media and on the internet. So I just kind of wanted to give like a brief, you know, introduction. So I'm gonna play a video, and this is um Lindsey Clancy herself speaking.

A Clip Raises Bigger Questions

unknown 12:24

Ms.

SPEAKER_06 12:24

Clancy, good afternoon. I think clearly where you have the U.S. Constitution, they have the let's say, the minimal protection. A Massachusetts Constitution provides greater protection in the ground. You have wonderful uh first respondents. And what these people went through is just horrific. But they have one witness after another, after another, after another, after another, file by the final file, file by the button, all things, all describing that they saw when they went into that house. And that's gonna be a replay on the trial itself. So the government should be in a position of presenting their evidence on criminal activity without traveling on the defendant's right not to be presenting evidence, quote unquote, against herself in that phase of the trial.

SPEAKER_03 13:37

Patrick Clancy says he went six months without speaking to his wife, Lindsay Clancy, after she took the lives of their three children almost three years ago to the day. He says he probably would have gone even longer without speaking to her had it not been for Lindsay's parents reaching out and asking him to be willing to call her on her birthday because she was slipping into an even deeper depression. Patrick reluctantly agreed and later told a reporter for the New Yorker that the one question he had to ask her that was burning in his brain was that she purposefully sent Patrick to CBS and to pick up take out food so that she would have enough time to kill the children. Lindsay told him no, that it was a split-second decision she made after hearing a voice in her head tell her it was her last chance. The prosecutors claimed this was a well-orchestrated, premeditated murder of their five-year-old, three-year-old, and seven-month-old children, while Lindsay's defense team is standing ten toes down, saying, even though she was never formally diagnosed, Lindsay was an over-medicated woman who absolutely suffered from a postpartum psychotic break. The trial, which was supposed to start in February, has been pushed back to July, where Lindsay.

Psychosis Claims And Malingering Research

SPEAKER_01 14:44

This is a quote taken from the journal of Lindsay Clancy, dated October 2022. Now let's read this and go over this. Now, in this journal entry, she states, I think I sort of resent my other children because they prevent me from treating Cal like I did my first baby. And I know it's not fair to them. I know that. I was feeling pressed last evening when Cora and Dawson came home from school. I know it runs off on them. So we had a pretty rough evening. I want to feel love and connection with all of my children. Y'all, this journal entry shows that she was feeling a disconnect from her child. It shows that she was struggling. Now take into consideration all of the help she was asking for, literally begging doctors and medical facilities for help because she knew something wasn't right. In my personal opinion, this woman definitely shows to have been in some kind of depression which could have led to a psychosis. It happens. Why are people finding it so hard to believe that she was struggling with mental health? And again, this goes back to the stigma embarrassment of asking for help.

SPEAKER_02 15:53

In the Lindsay Clancy case, there is a question of whether she actually was experiencing psychosis or whether she's faking psychosis. I wanted to look into some of the literature about malingering of psychosis. It's actually not that uncommon among criminals. Um, about 17.5% of people that were found incompetent to stand trial were later identified to be faking their symptoms. And some examples of these include Kenneth Bianchi, who faked associative identity disorder, Vincent Gigante and son of Sam, who faked psychosis, Anthony Montwheeler, also faked psychosis, and Ian Brady. And all of them were able to fool psychiatrists for years or even decades into thinking they really had these disorders. And then there's also the Rosenhan experiment, which is a famous experiment where the researchers sent people to mental hospitals and had them fake psychosis. The doctors were not really able to tell who was faking psychosis. That being said, since the Rosenhan experiment, there has been research into malingering psychosis and ways to identify it. And this psychiatry professor, Philip J. Resick, MD, is one of the leading experts on this. Um, and actually, interestingly enough, he has been hired by the defense as an expert. So I'm interested to see what his testimony says, if he is actually called to testify, or if the defense just hired him so that the prosecution couldn't hire him and they don't actually end up using him. I think that will kind of tell you a lot. This is one of his articles. It's called Faking It, How to Detect Malignor Psychosis. It says genuine hallucinations diminish when patients are busy, so patients develop ways to cope with them. Lindsay originally said that she only had this one voice the day of the crimes, and now she's claiming that she had auditory hallucinations for months, but either way, she doesn't talk about anything that she did to try to cope with them or have them diminish. It says malingerers may also report auditory hallucinations of stilted or implausible language that kind of is like telling them directly to go commit a crime, and it says it provides the patient with psychotic justification for an illegal act that has a rational alternative motive. On common psychosis presentations, it suggests malingering, hallucinations that are continuous. She describes that in her lawsuit, the patient uses no strategies to diminish hallucinations. Patient states that they obey all commands. She stated that she immediately obeyed the command from the voice as soon as she heard it. Her delusions, abrupt onset, or termination, it seems like they immediately terminated as soon as her husband got home and discovered what she had done, and she was able to calmly explain it. Patient's conduct is inconsistent with delusions. Um her calm explaining and immediately having the delusions go away is an example of that. And this is important bizarre content without disorganization, because we didn't see any sign of disorganization from her. She kept meticulous notes, she was able to clearly talk to doctors, she was able to clearly explain what happened to her husband after he got home. Then it says, in the subject's report of symptoms, gives a clear and articulate explanation of being confused. She does give an explanation of that both to her husband immediately after the crime when he got home and the next morning when she talked to him on the phone. And then in subject's own reported history, she gives conflicting versions, which she also did, because originally she said that she only had this one hallucination the day of the crime, and now she's claiming that she had them for months and that doctors misdiagnosed them as intrusive thoughts. It says that hallucinations are typically intermittent. She claimed that they were continuous for months in her lawsuit, and that people with command hallucinations do not always obey the voices, and there are usually non-command hallucinations as well, which she never described experiencing. Thus, you with suspicion someone who alleges an isolated command hallucination without other psychotic symptoms. Malingers also don't commonly fake um psychotic speech patterns or negative symptoms, and we've had no reports of Lindsay having or experiencing those. Malingerers may claim that a delusion began or disappeared suddenly. Delusions usually take weeks to develop and much longer to disappear. Typically, the delusion will become somewhat less relevant, and the individual will gradually relinquish its importance over time after adequate treatment. In general, the more bizarre the delusion's content, the more disorganized the individual's thinking is likely to be. With Lindsay, it seems like immediately after she committed the crime, the delusion was gone and it stayed gone, and she was able to calmly explain what she did. Her thinking was not disorganized at all, and there didn't seem to be any um process of getting her out of the delusional state. She seems to just immediately get out

Meds, Postpartum Illness, And Stigma

SPEAKER_02 20:48

of it.

SPEAKER_00 20:48

So obviously what So I do want to add that postpartum anxiety and postpartum psychosis is two way, way different things. Um huge difference, right? I would say it's probably more rare to have postpartum psychosis. Everyone has some type of like postpartum after having a child, children. Every child is different, every pregnancy is different, every labor is different. And I do want to add this Lindsay Clancy's medication list. She was prescribed 13 different psychiatric medications over several months. But at the time of the alleged murders, she was taking three medications and had been on been on up to four to five at once during that treatment period. 13 different medications prescribed over time, often described as in eight months or several months. At the time of the murders, she was taking three medications. Multiple creators and reports state this. She was never on more than four or five medications at a time. So I haven't really um excuse me, sorry, my voice is very dry. We are Dealing with some horrible air quality, nasty shit again here in Michigan. I'm not sure where you live, but you know, we've had wildfires and this and that. So, anyways, it's still lingering. Um, I haven't really had time to form my own opinion on whether I think she could be guilty or not, because there's there's a lot of different layers to this case, right? I will say this. Um, she did try to get help several times. She did check herself into a um psychiatric unit. I think she was taking way too many medications. However, I've seen videos of her when she was in like nursing school or she had just graduated way before she had kids or got married. And she had, to me, she already looked so disconnected as a person. I think that there was a lot of mental trauma in her brain way before she started having children. Unfortunately, um, I'm not a physician, I'm not a psychiatrist, psychologist. I can't really speak on this right now. I kind of am waiting to see where the trial goes. I do feel like I guess I do feel like the medical teams did somewhat fail her, and I think her husband did in a way too. I don't think he took it as seriously um as he needed to. But then again, like it's easy to judge when you're not in these people's shoes. So, again, I don't have a real opinion about this yet, but I can tell you this I am so so saddened and disgusted, and just makes my hairs just stand up. The fact that these children, the last thing that they seen was their mother strangling them and killing them. Um, I could never imagine doing that to my own child. So it it really, um, I already had a heart for children, and a lot of these things when it comes to children was hard for me to stomach before I had Jack. And now that I'm a mother, it's very, very upsetting. It it hurts my heart for those children. And I know a lot of people would say, Well, you know, they're at peace. Okay, but that's the last thing they seen before they left. Little innocent children, and I don't even like talking about it, so I'm gonna end it on that. Um, there's two other cases we need to talk about, but again, um, more children involved, of course. It makes me very sad, and that's why I did say in the beginning of this episode, this is not for the week. These are very serious, um, you know, very serious murder cases involving children. So again, I apologize if it's too heavy for anyone out there, but again, you know, this is part of my podcast, so it's not just paranormal, it is true crime, and unfortunately, with true crime comes the unfortunate topics of children.

TikTok Tragedy And A Killing Spree

SPEAKER_00 24:49

So moving on. Okay, so Sarah Duffy's life was taken by her soon-to-be ex-husband known as Duffy. I'm sorry, Duff Daddy on TikTok. Um, she was doing the Netflix trend, like the whole like when a um documentary drops. So her titles going into this video said preparing for when Netflix drops a documentary about my soon-to-be ex-husband, who I just found out is a pedophile. He broke into her home the night before, so this was 723. So this was literally like five days ago, and he took her life and then he took his. So again, it was a TikTok trend that she thought, you know, it was funny, or to get I mean, maybe she was doing it for real. And um, yeah, so he went and murdered her, then murdered himself, and her son found them. So that is very disturbing. And again, that was five days ago. Um, okay, so moving on to the next story, which is extremely layered.

Grand Haven Family Fire And Online Clues

SPEAKER_00 26:17

Okay, there's like the rabbit hole of this is insane. So there was a tragedy that happened um in Grand Haven, Michigan, and this family has been identified by loved ones, found dead. Eight dead, including six kids, in suspicious Michigan house fire, identified as beloved teacher and her husband. The oldest child was 15, the youngest was five, and their names were Keegan, Bennett, Carolyn, Ella, Smith, and Teddy. Um, I know two of them were adopted, and I'm seeing all kinds of stuff like that the husband was caught up in infidelity again, and he got fired from his job. So I'm gonna play a couple of videos, um, but then I'm gonna go into the rabbit holes of this.

SPEAKER_04 27:12

Breaking news authorities have now provided new details regarding the family of eight that was found deceased in their home, which included six children and two adults. This crime took place in Grand Haven, Michigan on Friday, July 24th. It was on that day around 8 30 a.m. Authorities say they received multiple calls for smoke in the area. However, once firefighters responded, they said they found no fire and no signs of smoke, and they left. Then around 11 30 a.m., they received more phone calls for smoke coming out of a window of a home. Once authorities were able to gain entry into the home, they found eight deceased individuals. Six of those eight individuals were children raising an age from five to fifteen years old. The parents were forty-seven-year-old Christopher and thirty-nine-year-old Mandy. Initially, authorities reported that multiple victims had wounds from a G U N, however, they did not specify who or how many. They also initially stated that it seemed like one of the parents took the life of everyone and then their own, which authorities have now confirmed is in fact the case. Authorities have now determined that Mandy and her six children had all of their lives taken by their father and husband. They said the cause and manner of all of their passing was due to a genuine homicide. They confirmed her husband Christopher took his own life. Furthermore, they confirmed that the house fire was intentionally set in multiple places of the home after all seven individuals were deceased. However, at this time, the family pets were still alive but paris due to the fire. This afternoon in this case, make sure you click the playlist below.

SPEAKER_07 28:35

I've obtained a video after the tragic story out of Michigan where a family of six children and two adults were found dead inside of their home after a suspicious fire. If you're not sure of what I'm talking about, Christ and Mindy, Carol Ketch, and their six children were found dead on July 24th after neighbors called for a suspicious smell of smoke in the neighborhood. And firefighters arrived around 8:30 a.m. Couldn't find anything. And then a little bit later, around 11 45 a.m., they get a call again saying, hey, we know where the smoke is now. It's coming from that house. Firefighters show up. Not a lot of damage from the fire. And that's when they discover the horrific scene. Authorities say that many of the victims had gunshot wounds. So I take the back. Not maybe not many, but some of them. That's what they're saying right now. And so I've started to dig deeper on the couple, Mandy and Chris. They were buried back in 2009 and they had four biological children.

SPEAKER_00 29:38

Alright, so these are pretty much saying the same thing. Um, so some of these comments are just, I mean, I feel the same way. This um girl says adopting children for a better life and then killing them is fucking cruel. Reddit says that she talked about his alcohol alcoholism and infidelity at length. Now they actually have um receipts of her Reddit, and this person says, I was looking through her Reddit comments post, and I can see all of it. She wrote on Reddit about him cheating. This is a very conservative and religious part of Michigan. Her de deconstructing from a high control religion might be part of what was going on. Um, religion and toxic husband, bad mix. He cheated and she stayed for the kids. Maybe she finally decided she wanted a divorce and he couldn't deal with it. Um, let's see. Okay. The actual Okay. I have the actual thing that she wrote, like the actual Reddit post. Oh, did they delete it? Well, the internet deleted it. Um, someone said we're about 25 minutes from this home. Religious indoctoration is and has ruined so many lives. She knew it was on to how things and it felt wrong. She made some videos about being devastated about her last birth because her husband would be 60 when he graduated, and she wished she would have and could have had an abortion because it seems to have been a choice she made for other people, but she did not want the pregnancy. This whole thing is a huge wake-up call. Don't believe what you hear or see even. What happens behind closed doors is what matters. You'll never know. Um, so I did look on her page last night. So I'm gonna come back to that. Give me one moment. I actually sent this to my husband last night, and he doesn't like this shit. You know, it freaks him out. But so she did a um she did a TikTok duet video, and the headline on top is my kids are worth more than your guns, which I find very ironic, right? This person says this is the most ironic post ever. May she and her beautiful children rest in peace. They did not deserve this. Um let's see. Okay, so I'm skipping through all these comments. So the one thing that she wrote right after, she said, just letting anyone commenting know conspiracy theories and right wing talking points will be deleted and you will be blocked. And then one of her comments back to somebody was, I'm so glad you commented on my video so I can block you. And then right after that, recently, this woman says, Praying your children didn't see it coming and that they didn't suffer. May you rest in peace. And um, a lot of her videos are about her coming into her spiritual path and like leaving this religion. Now I don't know what religion they were. I'm I guess in the west part of Michigan over there, people are saying that it's like super religious. I'm guessing Catholic. But incredibly sad, right? Um, I'm sorry, this shit just shakes me to the core when a whole family is off, or you know, women killing children, men killing children. It's very, very hard to deal with. And mental health is a thing, and I think beyond mental health is a social media issue, right?

Social Media Pressure And Searching For Why

SPEAKER_00 33:52

Now, this Mandy Carroll, the one that was um killed with her children just recently here in Grand Haven, Michigan, actually on her Reddit post, she said, I fear that my husband is a lot like Chris Watts, the one that killed his pregnant wife and his two little daughters. Now, I will say this, and you can come at me if you want, and this is not at all making a fucking excuse for what these men or what these women do. But I'll speak for the men. As Chris Watts case and all this, women like her, you could tell she was her life was so put together and perfect on social media. So your husband had cheating, was cheating all this time, probably getting you got we're thinking about getting a divorce, but you were just in China with your two adopted Chinese daughters, you know, living the life. And every video is of her and the family and the husband, like they're great, they have this big, beautiful home, they have money, yada yada yada, and like it portrays that she lives a squeaky, clean, perfect life. And I think a lot of women that are overly sharing and overly documenting their lives, it always ends up bad, and I think it does put a type of pressure on a man, and it's a vulnerability, I think, for a man that your life is always out there, right? On social media. I'm not saying like random pictures, you know, that you post once in a while of you and your family or you and your partner, your man, whatever. But I'm saying like you could tell she was like wanted to be an influencer, and she was a substitute teacher and a paraprofessional, I believe. Um, but there's just this after something like this happens and you go big in hindsight and you look back at this, you're like, wow, everything was on social media. Just like with Chris Watts' wife, um, what was her name? Sh uh Shannon or Shanahan or something. Um, did she deserve that? Absolutely not. But her putting on social media her pregnancy test to do like the reveal to her husband while Pete like thousands and thousands and hundreds of people were watching. I don't, I'm not for that. And I do think it fucks with the man's head, and I I really do think it needs to be studied. And I even made a very morbid comment to my husband last night when I was talking to him about this Grand Haven case. I was like, you know, that guy's brain needs to be fucking studied, right? And then I was like, Oh, never mind, he burnt them up in the house. Now I don't know how burnt they are. I mean, I don't I truly believe that they should go and open up these men and women's brains and really study them because this shit needs to be studied, it happens more and more and more and more. And I know a lot of people will say, Oh, it's just because they're social media, you see it more, it's more in your face. Even even if we didn't have the social media like we do, this shit would be all over the news. I mean, this is like tragic. This fucking man took six kids' lives and then took his own. And remember, two of those kids were just, you know, adopted not too long ago from China. So um, oh, and did I mention that they're saying he got fired from his job? I think like two weeks prior, and I think he worked for a heart American American Heart or something, or American Cross. He was like a salesperson, but yeah, they're saying that he was fired. He was let go. So sure there was a lot of pressure there, and I'm not making an excuse. I'm just saying, like my logical part of my brain, I always wonder, okay, why? Like, there's gotta be a why behind this, and this is what I love about criminal documentaries, criminal shows, you know, looking up any crimes like crimes of passion, crimes of women killing their children, or men killing their wives and their children. I do, it is like I said, it's hard to stomach when it comes to children, but I do find it very interesting, and I always want to find the why, right? And a lot of times there isn't a why. You know, I mean, there's just we don't know what goes through people's minds. You know, you may a person sitting next to you, you may think that you know them, but you may not know them at all,

Closing Thoughts And What’s Next

SPEAKER_00 38:15

right? So, anyways, um, we will be touching base more on these well, that trial, the Clancy trial, and then these two more recent ones. Alright, you guys, thanks for tuning in and be ready for some more very soon.