Strange Deranged Beyond Insane
Everything paranormal and unexplained. History of buildings old hospitals any haunted locations along with personal experiences. Famous murders in Michigan. Ufo and extraterrestrial. Urban legends of Michigan. Folklores witches and tribal tales. Horror movies and unexplained curses and deaths on set.
Strange Deranged Beyond Insane
An empath-EMT, a demonologist, and a history lesson collide in a candid look at hauntings, healing, and hype, with Jenny and Thomas Patrick Gormley!
Hello everyone, welcome back to Strange Drange Beyond Insane. Um, well, besides taking a siesta here for what, I think 10 weeks, uh, had a whole whole ass human come out of me, so I've been kind of preoccupied, and we have now sat around with both of our guests for almost two hours um with technical difficulties because Jenny was talking about the hat man. I'm just kidding. Anyways, I'm gonna let Jenny take this over with um someone very cool and a very colorful background in the paranormal world. And uh yeah, Jenny, go ahead and reintroduce yourself.
SPEAKER_02:So I'm Jenny. Um, my page on Facebook is Haunted Places82. Um, and yeah, we have a very special guest. Um I met him at the Ohio State Reformatory Paracon. And um yeah, he told me about his background, and I was like, wow, like I need to have you on the podcast. So, Tom, um, I'm gonna kinda have you do an introduction of yourself because I think you would be able to say it a whole lot better than I would. You've been involved in so much. Um, but yeah, if you can go ahead and do that.
unknown:Perfect. I'm glad that you guys have me on. I'm glad we're figuring it all out.
SPEAKER_00:But uh, yeah, Ohio State. I mentioned Ohio State reformatory. Uh one of my favorite places because they filmed Shaw Shank Redemption there, my favorite movie of all time. So um, I I go back a little bit.
unknown:I my big joke for everybody that was asking how I've been doing this for I always tell them I've been doing this uh uh since uh the TC was only sick.
SPEAKER_00:So my things I I go back uh my teen years probably um I always had abilities I would say things, uh, don't understand why I would feel things, don't understand why I went from happy to angry in a matter of a couple seconds just by moving into a room. Uh I want to go see a Halloween special Central Connecticut here uh near Britain, Connecticut, where I'm currently at. Um I'm in the process of moving out to Ohio as we talk, uh, but um I'm glad you guys have me on in the middle of my move.
unknown:So I wanted to make that time for you guys. It's a special time too.
SPEAKER_00:But um I I met Ed Lorraine Warren, and Lorraine recognized something to me, and when after the show was over, um you get to go backstage and visit with them, and she skipped everybody moving crowd came out to me, and uh she says, Honey, you've been having problems. And everybody that knows Ed and Lorraine knows that Lorraine called everybody Honey, and Ed would call everybody Kid. So those are their little pet names for everybody.
unknown:And uh so she recognized me, and then I started trying to figure out what it was all about.
SPEAKER_00:So I went to the house a few times over the years and and got to really um figure out what it was all about, how to control it, and um developing my skills to help the building blocks, learning from them to build and go on my own journey and help the living and the dead, which is what I've been doing for the last uh 40 years uh of doing this, and I've met a lot of great people along the way, but along the way you get a lot of that, you take those skills, and my my first foray after college uh is as a as an emergency medical technician, and with that being an empath and being able to see things, uh it was weird, you know, you go to an accident scene and watch uh people's uh spirits leave their body uh and things like that. It it got a little much over time. Um I was still trying to learn how to create boundaries and control what I had. Um from there, I I got into um you know a background, I do have a background in psychology, uh, but when I started using that more when I lived in Florida, I worked for the Department of Corrections. I was a criminal behaviorist, and um one of my jobs was to profile inmates. So in case there was a crisis at one of the prisons in Region Three, which I I saw over as the crisis negotiator for the region, um, I would have to profile the inmates and to figure out something went wrong, what we were gonna do about it, how we were gonna control the situation by knowing what makes them tick. And that turned into um a career in the not only paranormal but true crime, uh, which I currently do a podcast every Monday at eight o'clock called Serial Killer Supernatural Murders on um All Access Network TV, which carries on YouTube, Facebook, all the different platforms that you could see it on. But mostly my my first foray was, of course, into the paranormal. After 40 years, uh close to I I'd say I'm probably past a thousand home investigations. Um, but my home investigations aren't what you see on TV. Children folks out there on uh podcast land. Uh I don't do the same thing you'd see. I've been doing this since before there was TV shows. My whole job was to go in and make sure that if there was something paranormal going on, if there was something psychological going on, but to make sure that the client was treated in a 360 way and not a linear way, where I was gonna go and get footage and then pop it up on YouTube or something. No, it was more of let's see what's going on. Let's um take a look at the whole thing. Are they manifesting this hunting through um a trauma or anything like that? Um, and that's kind of where I met you, Jenny, was at Ohio State Reformatory with my other counterpart, Stacia Wills. We run a group called Wardruna, which is what I'm talking about. We take in like an investigation, we figure out somebody is creating um their trauma, their PTSD is creating the haunting. Well, we have people on our staff with Wardruna that um are licensed um psychologists, things like that, and and we'll bring them to our people that believe in what we do, uh run them through the process, and then bring it back. And a lot of times the haunting goes away because of that. So we're treating them the holistically the whole way. We never leave our clients uh high and dry or anything like that. And that's what Roardrona does.
unknown:It's a whole other monster.
SPEAKER_00:But also for me, yeah, also for me as the Archangel, the paranormal, uh, that was always been my moniker. Um, and you know, doing this for so long, I also am part of an events group called uh The Shaman and the Showman. Of course, I'm the shaman, my counterpart. Um Charles Rosene is the showman, and if you ever met him, you would know why he's the showman. Uh and he does a lot of uh tours all over you know England for he does Beatle tours, Dracula Tours of Transylvania. Also, uh currently this whole October, we do a haunted trolley event. Uh this year's theme, it's like a murder mystery every year, but we change it up. We have actors on the trolley. You don't know who the actors are, just think it's another person on the trolley. Uh, and um this year's theme is alien invasion, so you have to figure out which person is is is uh not really a human, that they're actually an alien. I have quite one. And that runs all that sober.
SPEAKER_03:Yep. Have you ever been to Transylvania?
unknown:I haven't. I haven't been to Romania or Transylvania. Uh Charles runs that.
SPEAKER_00:It's like he does his thing. I have my thing, we have our thing together. Or Druna is what I do with uh Stasia Wills, and we have uh uh a whole bunch of other practitioners, uh and uh, you know, other shamans, other psychic mediums, uh hypnotists, uh people that do EMDR therapy, you name it, uh, we we have it uh just to make sure we treat our clients properly. But no, I've never been to Transylvania. I'd love to go.
SPEAKER_03:Sooner or later I will. My dad's uh my dad's side's from Transylvania, so that's I've got I have some really old photos. It's gonna go. Well just go on Drack Tours, D-R-A-C tours.com, and you could get a ticket.
SPEAKER_00:And Charles doesn't really go himself anymore. He re he greets you at the uh JFK Airport, uh flies you off there, and there's a local that does the tour for him now. Um he stopped doing it a few years back because it falls in October when he sends everybody out. Uh so on on Halloween, the tour stops at the uh Vlad the Impaler's castle, and you stay there for the night on Halloween.
SPEAKER_02:I won't that's a bucket list for me. I'll get out there one day. I wonder how expensive aircraft is to there right now. Oh yeah. Imagine.
SPEAKER_03:Nice.
unknown:Yeah, there's there's so many things that we do. We Charles and I will do ghost uh we'll take people out, we'll teach them how to ghost hunt uh properly.
SPEAKER_00:Uh, and we do events, psychic fairs, we do the big events, uh Connecticut Paracon, which passed July. Our next one coming up is the Salem Paracon and Horror Fest. That'll be uh November 15th in Salem, Massachusetts. Uh we've been doing that for four years. Connecticut just had our fifth fifth one. Uh, we also do a uh newer one. It's our second year. That was in August. It's the Connecticut Witch Festival. Um, a lot of people don't know historically, if you know. I'm a big historian. Um, I think you can't do a paranormal investigation unless you know the history before going in to do it properly. But we learned that um in Connecticut, after 360 some odd years, the court system and the ancestors of people that were uh accused of witchcraft here in Connecticut were finally exonerated. What makes it crazy is everybody when you say witchcraft, they think of Salem. The witch trials actually started, the first ones in our new world of our country happened in Connecticut 45 years before Salem. Uh so there was over eleven people hung uh for supposed witchcraft and uh so right where the old state house is in Hartford, that used to be a field, that's where they hung everybody back in the 1600s. So there's a lot of energy there.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that's I think a lot of people um don't they don't actually read or look into history, they just kind of take what is said on the internet, because I've had conversations with people where they think that witches were burned in Salem, and I'm like, there was there was actually nobody burned during the Salem House trials.
unknown:They were all hung.
SPEAKER_00:Uh there was a couple people that were put to the water test in Connecticut. Yeah, and then uh yeah, that was um oh, I met somebody that it was a distant relative of his got in Giles Coring. Yeah, or Giles Giles, whatever how people pronounce it differently. But yeah, he just kept saying add more weight. It was a defiance.
SPEAKER_02:Um it was a defiance, you know. And that he was like that for a couple days. And uh that'd be a horrible way to go. But um it would brain.
SPEAKER_00:It would, but for him to admit something that he wasn't, uh, that's more of yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00:No, I I I give him a lot of credit for that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um to go that way, but to never admit that you actually aren't something. And really after he was that was done to him, really, the thing settled down there. So I think it's a final defiance to tell people, hey, look at us different. Same thing in Connecticut. Um, there was a governor who spent a lot of time over in England at the time.
unknown:Of course, you know, we weren't really a country per se, yeah, still under British rule.
SPEAKER_00:But um there was a governor that was real his father was a governor in Massachusetts, but he became the governor of Connecticut, but he spent a lot of time over in Europe at the time. It's like, how do you be a governor if you don't even spend any time in your own state? But that's besides the point. Because of that, he had learned from other people in England about you know alchemy and those are the big things at the time. So with that knowledge of alchemy coming back and having all these people accuse the people of his state that he was governing of witchcraft, he's like, No, no, no, no. So he stepped in and a lot of that stopped.
SPEAKER_03:Now, if I remember reading on you correctly, you are a demonologist too, correct? Oh, sorry. Go ahead, no, go ahead. No, I don't want to shy. I don't want to steal your shy. You go, you no, you go. Okay, well, I will ask you this before you ask them. Do you think demons are physically real beings, or are they like festered up?
SPEAKER_02:Who are you asking? Both of you. Oh gosh. So who goes first? Oh, I well, my thing is that and this is, you know, I am a Christian, so I believe demons are fallen angels. Okay. That's the second time I heard that. I believe that's what they are. I don't believe that they are as easy to find or are I don't believe they can possess people as easy as people think. I think Hollywood has made a Hollywood and one specific investigator I'm not a fan of has made a huge, uh huge spectacle of that and has made people think that if you say you're a paranormal investigator or you go into a haunted house that you're automatically worshipping demons and trying to contact demons, and that crap gets under my skin so bad because I don't think it has anything. I mean, I yes, I think they're out there, but I believe they're more in the form of a John Wingacy or a Ted Hundy, or to me that is demonic. They're here to destroy mankind and souls and all that kind of stuff. They're not here to peek around a corner. Could it be the past life though, of someone's like residual pain and torment? I think that that's more of like a um more of uh like negative energy or a residual haunting type deal where you walk in and you're like, wow, this feels really heavy. Like heavy, okay. I personally do not think that that's demonic.
SPEAKER_03:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:Now let's hear from the specialist. Yes. I don't know if I was accurate. Please tell me how how you think of my judgment on uh Well we'll look at it this nobody's a hundred percent right or wrong about the paranormal, even demons.
SPEAKER_00:Um, what we perceive is what we perceive. Now, having the moniker a demonologist doesn't mean I fight demons, which technically I am part of the person that will help you with the 1%, which I call it. 99% of the time is what we call is a familiar demon. Are you guys familiar with that? Yes. Familiar demons are just basically what we create ourselves. Um, if you're an alcoholic, uh you have that demon of of alcoholism that really keeps you from pressing forward on your journey. Once you but the thing is, is once you overcome that and you stop drinking, doesn't mean you're not an alcoholic anymore. You still are. It's just creating dust on a shelf. Um familiar demons never really leave you. They're always there, keeping them at bay and not inviting them. You always say in the movies, don't invite a vampire in because then they have you. So you don't want to invite these things in or give them energy. So when you talk about this stuff too much, people ask me about my demonic cases all the time. I don't talk about them. The reason being is I will never give it energy again for the fact that I don't want to bring it back into the client's life. Um, you know, the client doesn't want it anymore. You know, we help them overcome that, and it it won't come back because a lot of times it's just like us, there you're you're right, they are fallen angels, and most of the higher end ones, uh whatever you say, devil, Satan, whatever, doesn't have time to be messing with so-and-so in Indiana that's having uh, you know, a problem. It it's mostly lower level um demons that 1% is it's a lower level style to it. Um, and those are usually easier to deal with. Uh there are things that are a little harder to deal with, but sometimes it's a combination of the real demon being there along with the familiar demon on top of this. So there's a lot of layers to it, which makes it difficult to help and solve. Um, exorcisms aren't necessarily only done by the Catholic Church. Me as a shaman, I'm able to do those as a shaman with uh spiritual getting beyond the veil and being able to communicate, which is I get a hard time about my partner that I work with, Stasia Wills. We do have the ability to communicate. Uh so there's a communication with what is perceived as a demon or a lower level demon. You have that communication, people think it's bad. No, it's the same thing. If I try to have a conversation with my mortal enemy, I try and come to a conclusion. So am I gonna spiritually fight them or are they just gonna go away? Uh, do you want to fight or do you not want to fight? That's kind of what it comes down to. Um, but there's so much behind it, there's so many layers, and anytime somebody says they're a demonologist and all that, all it is is just I have the knowledge. Um people that say they're demonologists aren't necessarily somebody that faced that energy. Um, unfortunately, in my life I faced the energy three times. Um I never want to do it again. Uh, but if somebody needs me, I do have the knowledge and I will help them because of that's the type of person I am. But if I never have to do it again, I'll be happy because I've had things happen that will never leave you for the rest of your life and never wish it. And all these people that say, Oh, I want to see it, no, you don't. No, you don't. And that's a warning for me. Um, I've seen it and I never want to see it again. And uh I just pray that people protect themselves and not conjure that or not give that energy or not use that as an intent, uh, you know, because it'll it'll play havoc on your life, and again, it'll never go away. It'll always be there. It goes dormant. It goes dormant, but it could reawaken with the wrong intent and attitude and energy.
SPEAKER_02:And see, it's funny that you say stuff like that because I've always been a huge, I know Melissa's heard me say this, I've always been a huge believer on a lot of places you go to, you get the energy that you bring in. And I've also been a huge believer on like, especially with protection and what you allow in an investigation, has to do with intent. Um that's why, like, when I do my lives or even when I do an investigation, if something comes through and says demon or says devil, I say nope. And I always say that. I'm always like, nope, we're not talking to anything with that. If that's your intent, you need to leave. We want to find out who needs, you know, help here, who's here talking to us, that type of thing. Um and that's why even when you protect yourself, I think if you say it with intent that nothing is allowed to like follow you or hurt you or influence it's all about intent. I'm a huge believer in that.
SPEAKER_03:I do agree with him. I have seen more self-possession demonic behavior with addiction. Oh, yeah. Then I could never be scared of in any kind of hobby or that kind of stuff changes your whole like your I've seen the face turn black completely change like it it's just it's like well, I think it just it opens those proverbial windows.
SPEAKER_02:Like it totally alters your chemicals, it alters your brain, all that kind of stuff. Like that stuff is more dangerous than I think people realize. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Started 40 years ago. Um, the experiences that I've had, um, I do at this moment, um we do have several investigative teams that go in for war adjuna, and it is a last resort if I'm called in or have to fly into that particular house that we were called into. Um, it's gotta be really bad because I don't really do home investigations anymore. Um, because of what I've done thousands over the years, whether it be something quick on the phone or a long, longer, you know, people say that, like thousands, like holy smokes. Sometimes it I could solve something with a phone call. It's still considered a case, so it's still a case file. Um, or something that I gotta spend, you know, weeks on going back and forth. Nothing solves on the first time. You could go bless a house, it doesn't solve on the first time. A lot of times it's the people that live there, uh, they say they want it gone, but deep down they don't. And so there's that that battle uh with the living and the dead. The living that don't want it to go away. If they keep saying they want it to go away, you go bless their house, but they still maintain that energy that brought it there, and it just keeps haunting over and over again. So until they make the final decision deep down to want it gone, it's just gonna keep coming back. Uh nothing I can do about it.
SPEAKER_02:You know, it's kind of uh it's too hard to do. Like you said, get uh sustainable evidence, like over I mean, I've had some really cool experiences and some really cool stuff that I've been able to solidify in like actual death certificates, but even even still, it's just it's too hard to prove, but that's what leaves us, you know, leaving places and asking more questions and wanting to go back. Yeah. And uh I've actually been questions where they've said that or they've had that in like their, you know, little rule sheet where you cannot I still think they wrote it.
SPEAKER_00:I think they wrote it because of me. Yeah, and I'm like uh so you know that's some of these people that own these places have seen me work and uh yeah, I don't know.
unknown:I kind of make the joke.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, they probably wrote that, but it it's kind of funny, but you know. If you've investigated with me, then if you've been there, you know, you know.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that's uh I think that is pretty funny. And I think today a lot of things are it's gone off the beaten path from wanting to get evidence and you know, have more evidence to back up claims of hauntings and you know there being spirits and the other side and all that. Now people just want views. It's like they don't even know.
SPEAKER_00:Well if you get yeah, if you get footage, okay, you get a footage of a ghost, great. Okay, now what?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:If you can't answer now what, then what are you doing?
unknown:Give 'em the the ways to be able to get through it.
SPEAKER_00:So again, if you can't do that, um, it's not about dressing all in black, folding your arms for the pictures and being tattooed uh every inch of your body, and you know, I know that's great. I'm not gonna knock anybody, but uh yeah, uh let's let's do it for the right reasons and not to look pretty on the camera.
SPEAKER_02:So I'm like yeah, I'll knock that person that uh that fits that description.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:But uh like move out of the road, locations. Right. Yeah, yeah. And uh yeah, no, that's just what and I think they get, you know, shows like that, like even when I watch shows that do an investigation and seem like they're doing it legit and quote unquote scientifically and then at the end they just show the owner, like, you know, yes, here's a shadow figure, and it's like they already like you said, they already knew their house was haunted. Like, what do you what's your shadow figure?
SPEAKER_00:All right, you called us in because yeah, you called us in because you're scared and what's going on. Well, yeah, there's a ghost here. See you later, have fun. Yeah, you didn't do anything.
SPEAKER_02:I thought too, I'm like, I've thought that so many times. I'm like, well, did they like send someone in to help them? Like, what was the resolution? Like they already I always thought that was that was super.
SPEAKER_03:My problem with the damn ghost shows is that it all starts the same, it all ends the same. That's why a lot of my evidence I will never put out there. There's I mean, I have hours and hours and hours. I mean, like with my body cam and stuff. One day before I leave this world, I'm gonna make a little mini documentary. It's probably gonna be on like equivalent to VHS, what it's cost now, twenty years from now, for my son to be like, hey, do what you want with it, but this is like what happened, you know? And when I leave this world, if people can watch it, I don't care, but it's like I that's why I don't post a lot of shit because everybody's always trying to like it's like they're atta they're plowing everyone down to get to the top. It's like, but what the fuck is the top? Because we can't when we leave, we leave.
SPEAKER_02:Our knowledge about while we're alive is Well, and no one can no one can really prove anything unless you can get No, what I mean, unless you can get a name, unless you can get something, like you can't even for sure say there's ways though of finding out information and communicating and not just being like, hey, what's your name?
SPEAKER_03:What's your last name? How did you die? Or here's this picture of this orb. Well, who gives a shit? Everybody has seen pictures. Like it's more like it's deeper than that. You know what I mean? Um it's also putting together a puzzle sometimes because sometimes they they have to develop so much energy to get across and talk and like they're half words, and there's a bunch of random words you're like, okay.
SPEAKER_02:No, that's why, like, so out of so I used to work, and I I'll actually say the name now, but I used to work at Eloise. I worked there for about six years, and one of out of six years, I was able to take one, one experience and link it up to an actual news article of a young woman um dying the way that it came across to us that she died.
SPEAKER_03:You guys can get to the Lizzie Borden house and do the walking, the walking uh history tour. Matt, I think is his name. I still have his cart down here. The history of that place is frickin' amazing. Like it goes way, like way deeper than just it w I was just so fascinated.
unknown:Well, it is, it isn't just the Lizzie Borden house.
SPEAKER_00:There's Maple Croft where she moved to after. That's for sure. Yeah, behind the Lizzie Borden house, I don't think it exists anymore. I think it's a Lizzie Borden coffee shop now.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um where the house that used to be there was Lizzie Borden's, I don't know if it was her aunt or some relative where she went crazy and killed her children and threw them down the water. Well then yeah, so there's the house, right? Yeah. So there's a lot of um death and and despair and negativity just in that one area of Fall River, Massachusetts.
SPEAKER_03:So before that, too, the fire. That was crazy. The kid that started the fire. Yep. It's just insane. That I never would have known because they they how come they don't like show that more, like on any of the shows or the documentaries? Like that's what the the history, like you were talking about, Jenny, they don't show the history. No, well that's the thing is that's where we make a mistake. Five years. Um people hear the lore, they hear the falsehoods, and they don't hear the other stuff.
SPEAKER_00:That when you hear the other stuff, sometimes the haunting makes a little more sense.
SPEAKER_02:A cemetery, um, over this way called Soup Cemetery, and there's a quote unquote supposed witch.
SPEAKER_03:There's three different groups.
SPEAKER_00:Oh god, yeah.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It's a fear. Uh it it still happens today, uh, especially I on on a line. Yeah. Um everybody thinks they know one side and they get everybody to jump on the bandwagon, and happens all the time. There's still people who consider that the witch panic still happens in like Africa and stuff, uh, just the same way it did back in the 1600s. You know, it's just not in the news. They they'd rather put other stuff in the news to keep us from that knowledge. Again, train yourself, don't believe everything you see. Uh train uh you know, train your brain, you know, do some reading, do your research, do all your history. Uh it just makes everything a a little more it makes you more knowledgeable of what you're trying to help people with.
SPEAKER_03:So you have to go out with him, he's a retired officer, he's knowledgeable, he's like the perfect person to go out with. They don't go out to the cemeteries with we be protected.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so I don't know what the officers would say because the thing is is I retired, I was a Department of Corrections, so but uh I did go through all that type of training because with profiling and doing crisis management, you have to go through BSU training through uh we went through the FBI at uh Tampa. Uh so that's where we went our training down in Florida. But uh yeah, you know, you still get to talk to a lot of the people. That the street that I lived on down in Florida where I rented my house, there was ten houses on the street, and all ten of us were law enforcement of some sort. That was the street you didn't want to go down if you wanted to to do your uh you know born again thing or whatever.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. That's funny. You don't want to go down our street. But uh funny. All right. Well, thank you for talking to us. Thank you. Yeah. No problem. Yeah, we'll definitely have to do this again, whether it's through StreamYard or some other way. We'll figure it out. Yeah, I'm sorry.
unknown:Yeah, you know. Yeah, you gotta find a platform that's gonna work best for you. Again, you know, I'm always here to help. Uh I I just you guys great questions. Uh I wanna see you guys all do well. And uh
SPEAKER_03:Thank you.
SPEAKER_00:Whatever I can do to help you out, you know, I'm here for you. I got the resources to help you out. So that's why I like to use them to help out people doing the right thing.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you.
SPEAKER_03:So what we thought was the actual platform issue was um actually the interface with the microphone. So again, there's always going to be technical difficulties, and especially when I haven't been on here in a while. Um I guess it's part of the fun, but I think I got it figured out. My husband, of course, Paul the tech guy, um, figured it out this morning, and everything seems to be working good. So I'm sorry if it's a little grainy in the beginning, you guys. Um, I just did what I could and worked with this, and I I I had to put this on here because this interview was very important to Jenny. You know, she does a lot of work behind the scenes to um get these people to hop on here. So I hope everything sounds well, and um I will be talking to you guys soon.
